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Nov 24, 2009 14:50:14 GMT -5
Post by TheGratefulNed on Nov 24, 2009 14:50:14 GMT -5
(Spell-like abilities can't be used while held -- neither can psionics or spells [even those that don't require a verbal or somatic component]. If you want to overrule this and say Gl'Fnak can't use his abilities, that's fine. But just so you're aware, the spell description from the PHB would seem to contradict your statement. "Held beings cannot move or speak, but they remain aware of events around them and can use abilities not requiring motion or speech." It reads identically for both the 3rd level wizard and 2nd level priest versions. A free 5' step still leaves Nuuko in the last radius, which means he's defiling that area again and widening it -- he'd have to take a whole round to reposition himself outside of it, and based on his warm and caring personality, I made a judgment as to where his priorities lie.  ) Yeah...the destruction of my enemies is of more pressing concern than the comfort of my allies...though he'll still take the step to widen the distance from the undead 'loth and put him into a place where he can leave the area of destruction next round.  |
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Nov 24, 2009 15:34:16 GMT -5
Post by Stix on Nov 24, 2009 15:34:16 GMT -5
Could I please get a brief on the (apparent) alignment and location of all involved in the combat? Jocyl is a timid sort... From his perspective, that's easy -- Nuuko waved his hands, and Jocyl was trapped in a suffocating, freezing, sense-depriving nothingness. At least, so it felt at first: now he realizes that the nothingness was conjured right on top of him, and he's still on Elysian soil... though he can't see and has no idea of what's in what direction. If you want to overrule this and say Gl'Fnak can't use his abilities, that's fine. But just so you're aware, the spell description from the PHB would seem to contradict your statement. "Held beings cannot move or speak, but they remain aware of events around them and can use abilities not requiring motion or speech." It reads identically for both the 3rd level wizard and 2nd level priest versions. I believe it's in either Faces of Evil or Hellbound: spell-like abilities are actually physiological, and are created by extraneous glands and organs (when you switch to infravision, you're using a separate sensory organ inside your eye that's sensitive to heat instead of light). These do require physical movement, however slight, and the expendable abilities replenish themselves with time and rest. [I'd love to throw an erectile dysfunction joke in here, but I just don't have the time right now.] Dark Sun has similar things to say about Psionics: they're not mere concentration, they're subtle manipulations of the body in tandem with the consciousness (hence the Constitution requirement). |
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Nov 24, 2009 17:19:15 GMT -5
Post by TheGratefulNed on Nov 24, 2009 17:19:15 GMT -5
I believe it's in either Faces of Evil or Hellbound: spell-like abilities are actually physiological, and are created by extraneous glands and organs (when you switch to infravision, you're using a separate sensory organ inside your eye that's sensitive to heat instead of light). These do require physical movement, however slight, and the expendable abilities replenish themselves with time and rest. [I'd love to throw an erectile dysfunction joke in here, but I just don't have the time right now.] Dark Sun has similar things to say about Psionics: they're not mere concentration, they're subtle manipulations of the body in tandem with the consciousness (hence the Constitution requirement). Fair enough. Though with that being the case, can you give examples of what kind of "abilities not requiring motion or speech" that the writers clearly intended to be exempted from hold spells? And I'd posit, that if they're internal organs/glands from which these powers emanate that they'd be no more subject to the effects of Hold Person than say your heart or lungs. Because if internal organs are held also, you can kill (or at least cause brain damage to) just about anything with a simple 2nd or 3rd level spell by not letting oxygen or blood flow through them. |
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Nov 24, 2009 19:25:47 GMT -5
Post by Tllith on Nov 24, 2009 19:25:47 GMT -5
What AC are zombie mezzodaemons?
Less nimble than live ones, maybe?10
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Nov 24, 2009 23:40:50 GMT -5
Post by Stix on Nov 24, 2009 23:40:50 GMT -5
Fair enough. Though with that being the case, can you give examples of what kind of "abilities not requiring motion or speech" that the writers clearly intended to be exempted from hold spells? The save bonuses and immunities of a paladin, druid, or specialist. A paladin's ability to detect evil. A druid's ability to identify plants/animals/pure water. A thief's ability to detect noise. The language of hold person was written in a book in which spell-like abilities and psionics didn't exist. And I'd posit, that if they're internal organs/glands from which these powers emanate that they'd be no more subject to the effects of Hold Person than say your heart or lungs. Because if internal organs are held also, you can kill (or at least cause brain damage to) just about anything with a simple 2nd or 3rd level spell by not letting oxygen or blood flow through them. Being held, like being magically put to sleep, doesn't stop your heart or cause you to void your bowels. It does cause a loss of gross motor control. A baatezu who's got the "fireball gland", for lack of a better term, doesn't constantly or involuntarily shoot fireballs. (It could be better compared to a muscle than something that operates involuntarily.) A hold spell is as disabling as a sleep spell, save that the victim stays conscious and the spell can't be broken by injury. The physics of the RPG, as always, are a nightmare. What AC are zombie mezzodaemons? Less nimble than live ones, maybe?10 A human zombie's AC actually improves by 4 (it's harder to land a blow that really slows a zombie down), but that'd just be mean, so I'll leave their AC as is. |
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Nov 25, 2009 1:31:34 GMT -5
Post by john on Nov 25, 2009 1:31:34 GMT -5
Can John hop into his bag of holding, Stix?
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Nov 25, 2009 1:40:58 GMT -5
Post by Shadow on Nov 25, 2009 1:40:58 GMT -5
It's less of what the Bag of Holding can hold, and more of how big the opening is. If he can fit into it, and there's someone to pull him out, it would probably work, but if the opening is a half-foot diameter hole, you're probably not gonna squeeze into it without something tearing... the bag if you're lucky =P
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Nov 25, 2009 9:13:19 GMT -5
Post by Stix on Nov 25, 2009 9:13:19 GMT -5
Can John hop into his bag of holding, Stix? Oh, forgot to address this, sorry. The bag's opening is 2' in diameter, so it can be wriggled into (though someone will have to let him out again). The only potential issue is with the bag's capacity -- it holds up to 250 lbs. and 30 cubic feet. John will have to shed some weight to fit in with all his gear. If you go this route, you'll need to make a Str and Dex check (both in the same round) to take it out and open it without it flying out of his hands, then three successful Dex checks (one per round, on a natural 20 he gets snagged somewhere and will rip the bag if you fail another check) to climb all the way in. When the bag hits the ground, it'll need to pass an item saving throw (4 or higher on a d20). If the save is failed, the bag is damaged and John goes careening onto the Astral. As always, character points can be spent to adjust the die rolls. |
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Nov 25, 2009 11:46:57 GMT -5
Post by Tllith on Nov 25, 2009 11:46:57 GMT -5
The language of hold person was written in a book in which spell-like abilities and psionics didn't exist. Stix phrased this quite carefully so as to make it true. However, as a serious gaming geek, I have to note that psionics had been around in D&D since ... 1978? Eldritch Wizardry anyhow, a couple of years before first-edition D&D. And they were in first-edition AD&D too. I'm sure TSR was anticipating having them in 2nd edition. It's DM's call in any case since the rules are unclear, regardless of the geekery. |
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Nov 25, 2009 14:50:32 GMT -5
Post by TheGratefulNed on Nov 25, 2009 14:50:32 GMT -5
The save bonuses and immunities of a paladin, druid, or specialist. A paladin's ability to detect evil. A druid's ability to identify plants/animals/pure water. A thief's ability to detect noise. What about class abilities bought w/ CPs? i.e., the thief abilities - Detect Illusion, Dimension Door, etc. The physics of the RPG, as always, are a nightmare. In this case, it's the physiology of the RPG moreso than the physics. Also, from which side of the inky blackness did the three mezzoloths caught inside it exit? |
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Nov 25, 2009 19:29:56 GMT -5
Post by john on Nov 25, 2009 19:29:56 GMT -5
*sighs*
Man, the dice continue to dictate john's horrible splattering here, I think.
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Nov 25, 2009 20:14:20 GMT -5
Post by Tllith on Nov 25, 2009 20:14:20 GMT -5
*sighs* Man, the dice continue to dictate john's horrible splattering here, I think. You may yet outlive the rest of us. Though only by a few rounds. |
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Nov 25, 2009 20:31:35 GMT -5
Post by exile on Nov 25, 2009 20:31:35 GMT -5
Can Tllith fly? Or are those wings not yet strong enough to carry her?
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Nov 25, 2009 21:50:22 GMT -5
Post by Tllith on Nov 25, 2009 21:50:22 GMT -5
Can Tllith fly? Or are those wings not yet strong enough to carry her? Not strong enough to carry her, I'm afraid. Unless Stix somehow changes his mind. |
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Dec 1, 2009 9:19:01 GMT -5
Post by Stix on Dec 1, 2009 9:19:01 GMT -5
"'Scuse me!" Walking toward the thick the of the battle from back across where the nycaloth had previously shown itself - and carefully avoiding the anti-gravity zone - the Indep waves toward the mezzoloths, pointing upward. "Your beasty seems to've left you t' win or die, while ours just healed what little you'd done t' it. A surrender or retreat would be in order I'd say. That or bring in more o' your kin t' die, but I doubt you'll get much support doin' that." For those still on the ground: Anyone with the Planewalker kit may PM me an Intelligence check. Anyone with Etiquette may PM me a proficiency check. Those with both may send me both. |
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Dec 1, 2009 14:41:34 GMT -5
Post by TheGratefulNed on Dec 1, 2009 14:41:34 GMT -5
For those still on the ground: Anyone with the Planewalker kit may PM me an Intelligence check. Anyone with Etiquette may PM me a proficiency check. Those with both may send me both. Gl'Fnak's roll is in my private board...assuming being aware of his surroundings (though unable to move) still makes him eligible for this check. The save bonuses and immunities of a paladin, druid, or specialist. A paladin's ability to detect evil. A druid's ability to identify plants/animals/pure water. A thief's ability to detect noise. What about class abilities bought w/ CPs? i.e., the thief abilities - Detect Illusion, Dimension Door, etc. |
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Dec 2, 2009 11:27:55 GMT -5
Post by artemis on Dec 2, 2009 11:27:55 GMT -5
Okay I am SOOOOOO Sorry but I am confused as hell! Do we have both friendly and unfriendly Mezzos? And zombies? And where the hell did the zombies come from? People are falling upward and climbing into Bags of Holding? My head hurts. I don't know who to attack or if Xianna has a weapon or spell that would effect an enemy.
Stix did you get my PM? I closed out the window AS it was being sent.
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Dec 2, 2009 12:06:41 GMT -5
Post by Stix on Dec 2, 2009 12:06:41 GMT -5
The save bonuses and immunities of a paladin, druid, or specialist. A paladin's ability to detect evil. A druid's ability to identify plants/animals/pure water. A thief's ability to detect noise. What about class abilities bought w/ CPs? i.e., the thief abilities - Detect Illusion, Dimension Door, etc. Detect Illusion is a thieving skill in the same vein as Detect Noise; as long as the illusion affects him or is in line of sight/hearing range, you can attempt the roll. Spell-like abilities still require some slight motion, regardless of source. Okay I am SOOOOOO Sorry but I am confused as hell! Do we have both friendly and unfriendly Mezzos? And zombies? And where the hell did the zombies come from? People are falling upward and climbing into Bags of Holding? My head hurts. I don't know who to attack or if Xianna has a weapon or spell that would effect an enemy. Stix did you get my PM? I closed out the window AS it was being sent. You don't need to worry about what's happening over the battlefield (it's all well out of line of sight for anyone on the ground). Nycaloths can Reverse Gravity, and John and Hadrian were caught in the area of effect. As for the yugoloth zombies: mezzoloths have Animate Dead at will, and each of the groups are trying to add some bodies (literally) to turn the fight to their advantage. Abaia, Tllith, Nuuko, #2's zombie, #8 and #9 (and its mirror images) are fighting off #3's zombie, #5 and #7. #4 is hanging back from the fight, and just called down the pillar of flame onto Nuuko. |
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